Hi, everybody. This is Stephanie Krubsack with the Purevant Living Podcast. With me today, I have Nate Ziegler,  owner of CoMotion Fitness, a science-based, holistic, coach-inspired group workout designed to produce results both physically and mentally. 

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Hi, everybody. This is Stephanie Krubsack with the Purevant Living Podcast. With me today, I have Greg Stromberg, Founder and CEO of CannedWater4kids just outside of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Thanks so much for being here today.

Greg Stromberg

Stephanie, this is a real opportunity to share our work and thank you very much for your time today.

Stephanie

Definitely. Tell us a little bit more about your background running CannedWater4kids, and your interest in the environment and social responsibility.

Greg

Thank you. It begins probably 12-14 years ago, when I was still working. I’m now retired. I worked for a company called INX International Ink Co. I was director of marketing and sold ink to all the can makers in the world. I had a 47 successful career in the packaging industry and, at the time prior to my retirement, I was thinking about what I could do for my company, my industry, my family, my kids. What kind of legacy could I leave? I had great customers. So I had an idea and learned a little bit about the problems that the world has with water; every 15 seconds a child would die from a waterborne disease. Also I got exposed to a summit in Chicago back in 2007 where they had a gentleman from the United Nations, a consultant on packaging. It was a Canmaker Summit, I think in October that year, and he spoke to the CEOs of major can companies in the supply chain and I happened to be there as a supplier. He challenged all of us and said, “What are you doing to help people in developing countries because their food spoils and their water gets contaminated?” I looked around the room and everybody looked like a deer in headlights. No real answer to his question, but I took that question personally.

I had been thinking about it for a while and talking to the owner of The Canmaker magazine and told him that I wanted to do something around cans to give the can, which our ink went on, a higher purpose. That was to use it as a billboard for a cause to get clean water to people. To take Paul Newman’s concept, which I always liked Newman’s Own brands, and to sell that product in the marketplace and then take the proceeds and put them toward something good, a common good. So, the idea was born. I was able to get the CEO at Crown Cork & Seal to make up a pallet of cans for me and had the water filled in Cold Spring, Minnesota and went out and tried to start selling the water with the idea that I would give that money back to get children clean water.

I didn’t know how I was going to do it, but started off with water. Then somebody heard about what I was doing and a young lady who worked at Engineers Without Borders at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee came to my office and said, “Hey, I understand you’re selling water in cans for the purpose of getting clean water to children.” She said, “I work on several projects. Would you like to take on a project with the university?” I said, “Sure, I’d love to.” I haven’t sold the can yet, but I said, “What do we need to do?” She says, “If you can write me out a check for $10,000…” You can imagine it took my breath away. I haven’t sold a can yet. Not even priced-out a can of water. I said, “Sure,” and wrote her a check out of my personal checking. The nonprofit started with a deficit of $10,000. The good news is that we were able to sell those cans and sell more cans. We were able to recover the money that we put in and we were able to help the engineers go down on their own time and money to the highlands of Guatemala; they work on water projects and that money went to several water projects that they were working on.

Twelve years later, the nonprofit has been able to sell over three-and-a-half-million cans of water. We’ve displaced that many plastic bottles. If people don’t know, cans are infinitely recyclable; they become new cans in 60 days and they go right back into the packaging. Unlike other things like plastic and glass, it’s not that easy to recycle. Plus there’s not a demand for the container.

Stephanie

You might have answered this previously, but is there a specific experience that led you on the path that you’re on today or was it that conference that made you shift gears?

Greg

Yeah, thank you. Early on, my dad would share with me my grandfather who I never got to meet. I think I was six months old when he passed away. My grandfather graduated from Northwestern back in 1915. He was a dentist and my dad used to tell me stories about how he would fix people’s teeth in the Depression. People that had lots of pain and he wouldn’t charge them. That always stayed in my craw and then I got exposed to people like Paul Newman and Newman’s Own brands, Jimmy Carter and some of the work that he did. I was inspired, along with The Canmaker Summit gentlemen that spoke to us, that this is something that I needed to do. I was fortunate to have this 47-year successful career in the packaging industry, three healthy children, nine healthy grandchildren. Having all that success and being blessed with healthy children and knowing what was happening around the world, I felt I needed to do something. That was my inspiration.

Stephanie

That’s really great. Your grandfather’s story, building-off of his legacy, how he helped others. What do you want people to learn and take away from your efforts with CannedWater4kids?

Greg

Like I’ve told Stephanie earlier in our conversation, I’m a student and a teacher, probably more a student than a teacher. I’m always like a little kid, curious, and I became very curious about water. I think I’m still in kindergarten when it comes to learning about how precious our water is, and how little we know about our water.

The three questions that I give everybody is: 1. Do you know where the source of your water came from? Did it come from a river? Did it come from a lake, like Lake Michigan? Did it come from an aquifer? Did it come from the air? Where did it come from? I think it’s important to know. The second question is, how did it get clean? Was it reverse osmosis? Did it just bubble up out of the ground and somebody put it in a container? Very important to know how your water is cleaned because some of the processes strip the minerals out of the water and then they add other minerals to give it taste. Not always the best in the world, when people talk about what is healthy drinking water.
The third question is, how did it get to you? You would think that would be a silly question to ask, right? Living in Milwaukee or maybe Flint, the water travels from a filtration plant through pipes which are 100-plus years old made from lead. They go to connectors, probably made from lead depending on what part of the city you live in. In 2000 cities, by the way, the infrastructures have lead and they contaminate the water along with the lead in the older homes, because back then lead was not considered to be poisonous or unhealthy. So that last question, How did the water get to you?, is very important. If it came in a container, a big plastic jug, you want to know that too because all of these questions have answers that tell you how healthy your water is.

Stephanie

We’re fortunate today to have a lot of products that do test the water or filter even further. That’s really something to think about how it gets to you and how it’s transported too, even the bottled or canned water. Talking earlier about how your work with CannedWater4kids impacts the environment and society and mentioning 3.5 million cans, that’s significant. That’s that many less water bottles that are out in landfills right now or maybe processing plants, depending on how many actually end up there to be recycled. Looking at maybe how it impacts society, too.

Greg

We have too much abundance. We waste food, we waste resources. We’re not good stewards of our air, our water. Plastic goes in landfills; I think 7% plastic water bottles get recycled by the Cokes and the Pepsis.

Stephanie

That’s very low.

Greg

Yeah. That plastic breaks down. If it’s in the ocean, it becomes soluble, and then it becomes part of the liquid that we all consume, that the animals consume. The water that’s used in our food processing is mixed in there. The death rate in America, people were living longer and they’re not living as long as they used to. Some people talk about the stress, but I think stress along with cancer-causing chemicals and other contaminants that get in our water that aren’t controlled properly is a real problem. I think our leadership is asleep at the switch and the train wreck is... it’s not a train wreck, it’s the frog in the boiling water, the slowly boiling water. We’re slowly cooking and poisoning ourselves to death.

Stephanie

It stems from manufacturers because, as consumers, we have what’s available, right? If we’re not living off the land, so to speak, we have to buy what we can to get by.

Greg

That’s where education becomes important. We need to learn and understand answers to these three questions. I think you should demand from our elected officials answers and transparency about what is going on with our food. As you know, E. coli... I love fresh food and I get lettuce. We’re always reading about whether it’s the meat, the hamburger, killing people because of E. coli or listeria or whatever. We need to be more careful and regulate and set higher standards, whether it’s water, air or food, you name it.

Stephanie

It’s all connected. In addition to your message to listeners on how they can impact the environment and society, you mentioned to ask yourself these three questions about where your water is coming from, how it’s being sourced. Is there anything else you’d like to add to that for listeners? What action they can take.

Greg

The important thing is you should have your water tested and there’s several places you can do it. You can do it through your state. A lot of states, you can send them samples of your water. We will have shortly on our website where you can send your water to have it tested and that’s CannedWater4Kids.org. Whether you have a well or you’re getting water through your municipality, it’s important to know are there any contaminants in your water. Water does change from season to season.

Stephanie

That’s interesting.

Greg

There are regulations for schools that they have to test the water every year. The government does post that. There is a website also where you can put in your zip code, it’ll be on our website too, that will tell you what the recent analysis is that the EPA did on your water for where you live.

Stephanie

That sounds like a really helpful tool. I did not know of that one. We’ll have a link to that for listeners, too. That’ll be great. We talked earlier about all the different initiatives and projects you’re working on, what are some of them that you’d like to share that are top-of-the-list right now?

Greg

The one thing that we think is important is to get children involved in learning about water. Water 101, we call it. We’re working on some ideas of helping kids learn more about water. We’re partnering with a couple of local city schools and Cardinal Stritch University. We may see Marquette University involved, but we’d like to get all the universities involved to help kids learn a little bit about what is water and possibly looking at the democratization of water. There’ll be more to come about what we’ll be doing with all the schools in the nation with children with our water to make sure that they can answer those three questions or know where they can get the information on those three questions. After all, they are our future and our future leadership. We need to do what’s right for everybody.

Stephanie

That sounds really great. I know that you can’t share all the details yet. That’ll be coming soon. Very excited to learn more about that.

Greg

Thank you.

Stephanie

You mentioned working with a local university, Cardinal Stritch, with some of their classes. Do you want to talk more about that?

Greg

We participated in a Mission Fuel project which was, I guess you could say, an entrepreneurial course for nonprofits. Nonprofits operate just like regular businesses; they have the same challenges. They have customers, they have cash flow, they have to think about sustainability. They need to hold on and retain their best customers. They need to create new value and innovation and look for new markets, so they can sustain themselves. They need to hire and find good people that share their vision, their purpose and their core values.

Stephanie

That’s really great. We talked earlier too about your project in Kenya with CannedWater4kids.

Greg

This is an interesting project. We work with a company called Stonehouse Water Technologies in Milwaukee, part of The Water Council, a startup company that they helped to move forward. We were one of the first to purchase, what they call, a pod system. It is a new way of cleaning water, unlike RO (reverse osmosis), that pushes the water through filters and, in order to make one good gallon of water, you waste about four gallons of water to have one clean. You’re literally stripping all the minerals out of the water and taking out all the other bad things, E. coli and whatnot. But their system... and oh, I should say RO uses a lot of energy; it’s energy intensive and it wastes water. Their system does not waste water. You don’t take the minerals out, it takes out all the other bad things, lead and viral, like E. coli and whatnot, and gives you water with less energy use that is as good as when it started. They literally have taken water out of the Milwaukee River, put it through their system and it was better than probably the water in the middle of Lake Michigan.

Stephanie

Oh, wow!

Greg

We purchased one of those pods for a hospital and school and in Kenya, Africa. We hope to generate some more funds for that project because, not only are they helping the school and the hospital, but they have a whole village of people that need clean water. Right now, they’re taking it out of the lake. We were told a very sad story that these poor kids that go down to get the water many times get eaten by the crocodiles. Not only is the water killing them, but the animals are looking at them as prey.

Stephanie

That’s a very sad story. That’s great that you have one of the pods there. I think I was at an event at The Water Council where they did have that on display, that company. It’s really interesting. I think a lot of people probably don’t know this about reverse osmosis. A lot of people seem to be in favor of, but if it strips all the good minerals out and it takes so much to process it, then it’s actually not as great as we think it is. I know a lot of people can get that installed right to their water system in their home, to their faucet so that’s really good information to know.

Greg

Yes, and it was born right here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Thanks to all the universities. I think Wisconsin has a freshwater school and Marquette has it, along with UWM and then Madison and MSOE. I think everybody is contributing and this is the water hub for the world.

Stephanie

We have some of the biggest fresh bodies of water right here, so what a better place to have it, right here in the Midwest. I know you mentioned earlier too your work with Engineers Without Borders. Do you want to talk about the project in Guatemala?

Greg

What we do is we give the students money that we’ve been able to generate through the sale of our product. I would also like to clarify that we don’t ship water overseas. We have when the Red Cross or Second Harvest Japan came for the tsunami or Portal Light for Haiti after the earthquake, we did ship water. But our water all stays in North America, and we sell the water and then take all the proceeds, 95 cents of every dollar goes for a water project. We give this money through the sale of our cans to the students. Not for the travel, they go on their own time and money to travel there, but for the supplies.
They build purification modules because the water comes from the mountain streams and it’s all very polluted. But they’ve been able to take that water, make it clean, put in piping for the villages and then the people actually have running water. Now the other thing that we believe in is sustainability. We don’t think you should just give anybody money. You want to teach them how to fish, right? You want them to sustain that clean water. So the Engineers Without Borders teach a villager, who becomes the water manager for that village. The people work on the project, so they know how the pipes work and how they go together. So the engineers are very good at doing that.

Stephanie

That’s really great. It’s amazing how you’re partnering with all these different organizations and universities in the area for any freshwater project. That’s very amazing that you give 95% of proceeds, that’s huge. I feel like a lot of organizations maybe give 50-60%, but that’s a very significant percentage. I want to applaud you for that, too.

Greg

Thank you.

Stephanie

What does social responsibility mean to you? Kind of a vague question, but...

Greg

Not everybody is fortunate to have abundance, like myself or other people. There are people, as you learned, with the water problems that don’t have access to technology or resources. They’re not only drinking bad water, they’re becoming unhealthy and not living like we live. So, to be understanding and serving those who are in most need is what I would say in answer to your question. That’s what I believe is what needs to be done.

Stephanie

Touching upon what you mentioned earlier, when you think of freshwater projects you might think of third world countries, but it’s also an issue here in Milwaukee, in Flint, Michigan where some individuals that live in older homes, with older piping and lead. It’s right here in our backyard happening, so it’s everywhere.

Greg

We’ve poisoned a lot of children in Flint, in Milwaukee, and in 2000 other cities. That’s why we need the answers to the three questions. We need to hold the people that are responsible accountable for our well-being and safety. After all, the leadership... and I think the word leadership with moral courage is used today. It is extremely expensive to replace an infrastructure. Flint, Michigan is still not fixed. People still don’t have access. The kids, I’m sure, are still drinking bad water. I’m sure that holds true for Milwaukee. Special zip codes still have issues, older homes. The moral courage is in doing the right thing and spending the money. People are too worried about their money. We spend the money on the wrong things. If it was my child and I found out that they were drinking that bad water, it would be beyond emotional. I think it’s not right and we need to change it.

Stephanie

And bringing awareness which you mentioned earlier. You’re going to have resources on your website where you can enter your zip code if you might be in an area that you should really get your water tested. But everybody really should whether you have your own well or if you are consuming city water. You can buy water filters for $20. ZeroWater is one I’m using where it has a little testing thing where I actually tested my tap water. It had 165 parts per million of these other particles, which is a lot. My old filter took out 10; that’s it, 155. Then I tested it with this new filter, zero. It’s very interesting. There’s very small steps you can take that can help, but definitely get your water tested.

Greg

Be aware and, as we’ve all found out with the coronavirus, not all testing kits are the same. We need standardization, we need regulation, we need testing on the regulation by a third independent party, of course. And then we need transparency.

Stephanie

Yeah, definitely. Together we can take the steps. Again, we’ll post the resources so everybody can access that. So back to some of the initiatives you’re working on, is there anything else you want to share? Did we cover most of the current projects?

Greg

One of the things we’re working on is everything drinking water. We’d like to be a resource to the world on education and problem-solving and shared learning. Today’s technology allows us to do that. The world is flat and, with open source problem-solving, anybody can help contribute. Just like the Linux software where they write code, right? Most of our computers run on the code written freely by computer people for bragging rights. Our vision is, and as part of our charter as a nonprofit, to continue to educate, especially children, about what is clean, safe, healthy drinking water. So they’ll be smarter and maybe help solve those problems for the future.

Stephanie

Definitely, then they can go home and share with their families and be that voice of reason from a small individual to teach them young. So, kind of a fun question here. What is your personal mantra or theme song that gets you back to a good state of mind or redirects your mindset to a good place?

Greg

I’m not really a music person, but I think that one of my friends taught me value given for value received, but it’s really about giving more value than you receive, and being service to those in most need. To me, I define success by making sure all those children in the world will have access to clean, safe drinking water and no kid will ever die because of a waterborne disease. If I have to sum it up, it’s service to others, especially those in most need.

Stephanie

I really like that... service to others.

Greg

Thank you.

Stephanie

Are there any books you’d like to share? I know we talked about a couple earlier. You had some good ones. I like to share with listeners.

Greg

Yeah, probably.

Stephanie

The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, I think was one of them.

Greg

One that I think could be used everywhere is Rewards and Punishments by Alfie Kohn. When you look at what drives processes and systems, whether it’s political, business, nonprofits, whatever, the book he wrote talks about how manipulative money can be when it’s used as a reward system. It’s short-lived and people wind up working for the money, not for the purpose. I think the takeaway there is that we want to create environments where people can be intrinsically motivated. That’s where I think you get more value and more passion and more potential from your teams and your employees.

Stephanie

I definitely agree with that.

Greg

Thank you.

Stephanie

How can listeners reach you?

Greg

The best way is through our website, CannedWater4kids.org. You can call me, if you’d like. I’m always hesitant to give out my phone number, especially today with all the robocalls and the threats that I get from the IRS.

Stephanie

We’ll leave it to your email maybe.

Greg

You can reach me at greg@CannedWater4kids.org. It’s spelled c-a-n-n-e-d-w-a-t-e-r, the numeral four, and then k-i-d-s dot org.

Stephanie

Perfect. Thank you so much for your time today sharing all about your initiatives, CannedWater4kids. Thank you again so much for sharing and have a great day, everybody.

Greg

Thank you, Stephanie. Thank you for what you do.

Hi, everybody. This is Stephanie Krubsack with the Purevant Living Podcast. Today’s guest we have Julia Binks, the founder of Your Safari Expert, travel designer for safaris throughout Sub-Saharan Africa, born and raised in Kenya, moved to Milwaukee 3 years ago, being raised in Africa she developed an appreciation for the natural world and uses that to create environmentally conscious safaris. She creates magical adventures with an emphasis on responsible and sustainable tourism.

Quote:

“Travel is so important, a force for good, a
universal language that connects people throughout the world regardless of their age , gender, income bracket, or race. The right kind of travel can break down barriers and improve your understanding of different cultures,
societies, and religions.”

Hi, everybody. This is Stephanie Krubsack with the Purevant Living Podcast. Today’s guest we have Lisa Geason-Bauer is the President and Founder of Evolution Marketing, a Wisconsin-based woman-owned Certified B Corp, specializing in the area of global sustainability consulting and storytelling, environmentally responsible creative design and ethical marketing. Evolution Marketing is Wisconsin’ first triple bottom lined managed communications consulting firm, and they offer their services in a carbon neutral manner. Some of the topics discussed include her company’s participation in 1% For The Planet, The Green Masters Program created by the Wisconsin Sustainable Business Council, the SDG Action Manager, NetZero 2030, and the upcoming April 20th Nelson Institute Earth Day, and Business Workshop On Carbon.

Hi, everybody. This is Stephanie Krubsack with the Purevant Living Podcast. Today’s guest we have Michael Kienitz, photojournalist for over 45 years featured in Life, Time, Newsweek, Audubon, Elle, Rolling Stone, and other major publications worldwide. His work has also been exhibited in museums and galleries in the United States and Europe. Thank you so much for being here today.

Michael Kienitz

It’s a pleasure to be here.

Stephanie

We’re excited to get started to learn more about what you do. Tell us a little bit more about your background as a photographer.

Michael

The way I got started was when I went to school at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. Almost daily there would be protests and I’d read about the protests the next day in the newspaper and I didn’t even recognize what I had personally witnessed. So I thought I’m going to start carrying a camera and documenting these sorts of things. I studied political philosophy, so I was already interested in social movements and just political thought. From there, I did 10 years of war photography for news magazines and photo agencies once I graduated from college.

Stephanie

Oh, wow. Where were you taking those photos?

Michael

Lebanon, Afghanistan, Northern Ireland, a lot of work in Central America. There were a lot of revolutions going on then. All over the world.

Stephanie

Is there a certain location that impacted you the most that you witnessed?

Michael

I’m sorry, what was the word you used? The most something before the most impressed me.

Stephanie

Impacted you.

Michael

Oh, impacted me. I’d say it would have to be Afghanistan. It was like going back 500 years. The men ate separately from the women. There were just so many cultural things that seemed so different than our own culture. Not right or wrong. Just different. That was probably the most interesting country I’ve ever visited.

Stephanie

I’ve not been there yet, but we do share Madison in common. We talked earlier about how I was responsible for tearing down some of the old buildings built during war time.

Michael

Yes, one of the ugliest buildings on campus. Thank you very much for doing that.

Stephanie

Yes, Union South we’re talking about. I know you talked a little bit about your experiences doing photography in Madison and different places overseas. Is there a specific experience that led you to be a photographer?

Michael

Really those I had mentioned on my way to class in Madison, but all sorts of experiences that I’ve witnessed. I’ve been pleased that I had a camera like documenting death squad activity in El Salvador, and now something that impacts everybody in the world, climate change. I think pretty much for the rest of my life, in some way or another, I’ll try and work on that. Since not only is everybody impacted, but everybody in the world could probably do something to at least lessen what I think is probably going to be the inevitable end of the Earth because of our lifestyle and how unsustainable it is given what it does to the environment.

Stephanie

You’re capturing that and letting us see that. What do you want people to take away from viewing your work?

Michael

This particular exhibition, I’d like them to go away with two things. One that Iceland is an unbelievably beautiful and multifaceted country. Then the other aspect is all of this beauty that people will hopefully come and appreciate here at Arts @ Large, I hope they recognize that because of the way we are living that it’s rapidly vanishing. Just in 2018, a glaciologist discovered that the melt rate of the glaciers was as great in that year as the previous ten. So things are definitely accelerating. When I first went there, they had predicted worst-case scenario by the year 2100. In less than 100 years at the time, it was 80 years predicted that there would no longer be glaciers in Iceland and people were very skeptical of that. Now as the models are updated because of the rapid melting, they’re seeing that is more realistic than the previous assessment which put it at about 200 years.

Stephanie

Wow, so it’s getting faster.

Michael

Yeah, dramatically so.

Stephanie

Your exhibit here at Arts @ Large is showcasing a span of five years.

Michael

Yes, I started in 2013. The reason I got interested in this was I was walking with a guide one day and we were near the glaciers on our way to them to walk on them. He said, “Wait a minute, let me show you this.” He pulled out his iPhone, and he showed me the most beautiful ice cave. It was so stunningly beautiful. And I said, “Wow, where is this? How can we see that?” He said, “It’s where we’re standing. It was where we are standing right now, two years ago.” All that could be seen when I was there were boulders and small rocks. The ice had completely vanished.

Stephanie

Wow.

Michael

That motivated me... that this was a very dramatic thing that, by using photography, could be communicated to a lot of people. It was kind of a... What I liked about it was, on the one hand, you’re showing this incredible beauty that exists there. On the other hand, virtually none of it, none of what’s pictured in this gallery still exists. In this period of time, we’re talking about from 2013 to 2018.

Stephanie

Wow, that’s really unfortunate. These photos are beautiful. All these ice formations... they’re not there anymore. This is a way to preserve that.

Michael

One of the reasons I decided to print this stuff on aluminum... It’s an archival process and who knows, in 80 years, these photographs will be around but the glaciers probably won’t be. So children and the next generations will be able to see what a glacier looked like.

Stephanie

Oh gosh, like on the extinction list.

Michael

It’s like in our own country Glacier National Park, at some point relatively soon, they’ll be changing the name. There’s no longer really glaciers there. They’re just shadows of themselves, of what once was there.

Stephanie

Have you done photography there as well?

Michael

No, but a friend of mine took her children there a couple of summers ago and was telling me just how dramatic the things have melted.

Stephanie

I’ve not been there. I’ve been to Yellowstone, but not to Glacier.

Michael

I was in Yellowstone chased by a buffalo on my bicycle. I had a lot of fun.

Stephanie

That doesn’t sound fun. But you survived, you’re here today. That’s good. A buffalo. Is there more to that story? Were you trying to photograph him?

Michael

No, I was just riding slowly admiring this buffalo and it was near a young buffalo. I guess the road passed a little too close. All of a sudden, a cloud of dust and this thing starts chasing me and I rode pretty fast.

Stephanie

Oh, gosh. I know you answered this a bit before, but how does your work impact the environment? By bringing awareness to everybody and things like that?

Michael

First and foremost, it brings awareness and I would like to think the beauty hopefully will help to motivate people too, in their own lives, figure out in some way, both at work and when they’re not working, ways they can reduce the carbon footprint and the overall environmental degradation that’s going on.

Stephanie

Are there certain things that you’d recommend for listeners to incorporate into their daily lives to help combat climate change?

Michael

Yes, look at your website!

Stephanie

My website?

Michael

I found it absolutely excellent. It had several great ideas. But so many of these things and one of the reasons why I think that, in the end, we’re only going to be able to slow this process down, I think it’s inevitable that the planet is just somewhat doomed. Look at the bird life. The insects... they vanished in 30 years almost by 75%. We just can’t... there’s cycles... there’s things that are necessary in the overall food chain like pollination by bees, that’s so rapidly declining. The bat population... I remember, as a child, you’d drive 20 or 30 miles and your car, the grill, the front windshield would be covered with insects. Now there’s none almost all summer. The same thing with bats; I used to see so many of them flying at night. Now I don’t see any because of that white-nose disease.

Stephanie

Hmm, oh yeah, things like that. I know a rhino is officially on the no longer existing list. I think another type of parrot I saw recently, so it’s not good.

Michael

Yeah, the bird species... there’s been a tremendous decrease in those. I read the other day that all the birds are now becoming a little bit smaller in size.

Stephanie

I did see that as well... really interesting. You mentioned your story about riding a bike being chased by a buffalo. Is that one of your primary means of limiting your carbon footprint?

Michael

I do ride a bike a lot. I used to actually race bicycles. I got a fat tire bike years ago for the winter.

Stephanie

I want to try that.

Michael

I was really impressed with the electric bikes that I used in Iceland to go through one of the national parks last year.

Stephanie

Which one?

Michael

Vatnajökull. It’s the largest one. It’s surrounding the glacier there which takes up, depending on who’s doing the measuring, 8-11% of the entire country. It’s massive. That’s where all of these photographs are from and I got tremendous, because they were really behind the project, support from the park staff to fly my drone and do a lot of other things without permits. The permits were just open once they discovered what I was up to. In lieu of that, I give them these photographs to use in any manner they wish.

Stephanie

Okay, that’s really great. For listeners that are not familiar with Iceland, where on the area of the country is this?

Michael

This would be the southeast coast. It’s interesting. The southeast coast... the land because of the dramatic ice melt, unlike other parts of Iceland where the ocean depth is becoming a factor, here the land itself is rising. So the ocean is actually lower in those areas.

Stephanie

Interesting. Is that because the ice is melting and it’s rising up?

Michael

Exactly. That’s a good illustration of how dramatic and how much. Another thing that’s very significant about Iceland is, under those glaciers, are volcanoes. And with less and less ice, the volcanoes scientists believe, will become more active because there won’t be that containment of those tons and tons of ice and the cold temperatures.

Stephanie

Wow, I could just picture that. If the ice melts away, the weight’s lifted and, oop, it rises. So they might have cliffs like in Ireland one day on the shoreline. I’ve only explored the Golden Circle of Iceland, so closer to Reykjavik. In that area that’s where the black sand beaches are, correct? The southeast corner?

Michael

Yeah.

Stephanie

Okay. These photos are great. Would you mind talking about one of them?

Michael

Sure. Let’s talk about some of them.

Stephanie

We’re heading through the gallery, Arts @ Large. They’re beautiful. Some of these are life-size.

Michael

I think these two over here would be good to start with.

Stephanie

Okay.

Michael

The first one here is the end of the glacier. These are pieces of ice that have broken off; they’d be referred to as icebergs. The process of actually breaking off is referred to as calving.

Stephanie

Calving. That’s a new term.

Michael

This will dramatically change all winter long in color. In the summer, this beautiful blue becomes white because the ice opens up due to the air. That’s why I liked going in the winter when you’d see the most dramatic blue color.

Stephanie

It’s like a rock. It’s so blue like a quartz. Wow, it’s beautiful.

Michael

To the right here, we see this large mountain face. That’s just rock now. That was once glaciated as well. As the glacier retreated from that, there’s these very, very deep fissures that have resulted. They haven’t allowed anybody to go hiking there now for a couple of years because they’re afraid that whole side, the fissures as they get deeper, is just going to collapse onto this existing glacier. They’ve asked hikers to stay away. Recently, they’ve discovered that the fissures aren’t going as fast as they thought they would into and deeper into that rock face. So they probably will allow hiking to once again happen there. Several movies were produced here.

Stephanie

Oh, really. Which ones?

Michael

The Game of Thrones. A lot of scenes were shot in this area. I’d often encounter them when I was going around Iceland doing my photography.

Stephanie

Very neat! Were you in any of the films?

Michael

No. Now this is a summer shot. It’s taken at 3:40 in the morning...

Stephanie

It looks quite bright out.

Michael

...when the sun is rising. Yeah, even with the sun down in the summer, it’s still perfectly light. You wouldn’t need a flashlight.

Stephanie

What time of year does that happen again?

Michael

This would be June, July. All the hotels have very heavy blinds because you’d never be able to sleep because of how light it is. You have that 24-hour sunlight. Now, in the winter, when I like going more than the summer, you have the exact opposite. As I always like to say, I would rise early at 11:30 a.m. in the morning along with the sun.

Stephanie

Perfect for night owls.

Michael

Then I’d work all day until the sun set, which is at 3:30 in the afternoon. You basically had four hours to do your work, but the light was absolutely gorgeous because it just sat on the horizon the whole day.

Stephanie

You didn’t have to worry about shadowing with the shifting...

Michael

Exactly. It was just beautiful, warm light the entire day. Even though it was just four hours of light, it was the most gorgeous light you could ever ask for as a photographer.

Stephanie

It’s perfect. Yeah, this looks like...

Michael

What we have here is a massive piece of ice. This is calved; it has floated down a very small stream. The big lagoon that it floated down is called Jökulsárlón. There’s a thin stream and now, after flowing all the way to the ocean, the waves or the tide have thrown it back up on shore. As massive as this is, it’s about the size of a car, I photographed this, as I said, at 3:40 in the morning and by 10:00 a.m., it was gone.

Stephanie

Because it had melted?

Michael

Yeah, completely vanished.

Stephanie

Very interesting. This is at Jökulsárlón beach?

Michael

Yeah. The Jökulsárlón lagoon was, in the 1700s, an Aspen forest and a farmer’s field. Now it’s the deepest lake in Iceland because of all the glacial melting.

Stephanie

Wow, that’s crazy. Wow. Yeah. A lot of trees. Aspen?

Michael

Yeah. We happened to find one in one of the entrances to one of the ice caves and they carbon-dated it to be 4,000 years old.

Stephanie

Oh my gosh. Wow. You never would have thought that because in Iceland there aren’t many trees at all.

Michael

Yeah. They’ve been completely wiped out largely by the glaciation. It’s kind of ironic. They recently purchased a number of trees and, unfortunately, whoever put in the order to plant them all over Iceland didn’t realize they were dwarfs. Dwarf trees, so they never grew very much.

Stephanie

Wow, that’s another interesting fact I did not know. Should we move on to another one?

Michael

Let’s talk about a couple of these where we have people actually in the shots.

Stephanie

I like this one.

Michael

This is an ice cave. There was only a front and back, so to speak, and we’re looking at somebody, one of the guides I went with, ascending inside the cave. While we were in there, there was a massive avalanche outside...

Stephanie

Oh, wow.

Michael

...near where he is. Thank goodness, there was a very deep crevice between this ice cave and the rest of the glacier. Although we heard it and the rumble was incredible echoing through this cave...

Stephanie

Oh, I bet. Were you scared?

Michael

...it didn’t affect us at all because it all went down into that very deep ravine that separated the cave from the rest of the glacier.

Stephanie

In what year was that?

Michael

This was just two years ago. Again, that area doesn’t exist.

Stephanie

Really? It’s completely gone.

Michael

Or it’s so dramatically different, you’d never recognize it.

Stephanie

That’s too bad. It looks massive and it’s gorgeous.

Michael

It was a stunningly beautiful place to be in.

Stephanie

Did you have to do a lot of training to learn how to do ice climbing?

Michael

Yes, I didn’t know a thing. I was lucky that, again, there were a lot of people in Iceland, particularly the guides, who were aware of this issue I was trying to document, so we would trade services. I would give them or produce videos and photographs for them to sell their tours and things. Then they would give me what normally would have cost thousands of dollars to get to these places absolutely free, the trip.

Stephanie

Nice. That’s great.

Michael

Here’s another one where we see just one lone soul standing next to this very, very deep blue canyon.

Stephanie

Is that you?

Michael

No, that was another guide I was with. I was at the end of the canyon taking this picture. That’s Siggy there. He was excellent. The thing I really enjoyed about him was that he studied glaciology. While we were hiking, he could explain some of the things that we were looking at. He was deeply involved with documenting how glaciers move. Notice this really black pumice color. That’s a result of volcanic ash, which either just a few years ago or thousands of years ago, is now embedded in the glacier. When I was first having these printed at a lab in California, they called me and said, “Boy, we really have to do a lot of cleaning up here.” I said, “No, no, no, please don’t touch it. Leave the file exactly the way they are.”

Stephanie

It doesn’t even look real; it looks like a painting. It’s just amazing. Yeah, but it’s a photograph. It looks like he’s standing in a perilous location too, not too far from the edge of the...

Michael

Yeah, but notice in his right hand, he has his ice axe and you...

Stephanie

Oh, he’s holding himself...

Michael

If he was to slide, you turn around and you just jam that axe and then you won’t move an inch because it’ll just go deep into the ice and that axe’ll protect him. Plus, we used two-and-a-half to three-inch crampons on the ice, so we had a really good grip.

Stephanie

That’s good. Wow. Yes, this one is gorgeous. How tall do you think... is the height of this...?

Michael

...that lagoon? It’s a few hundred feet high.

Stephanie

Okay. Is this one still there?

Michael

This one is called the Blue Canyon. Yeah, it’s considerably smaller, but I believe it’s still there. I’ll be going back probably next winter and I’ll take a look. That’s one of the other things about this work that I’ve done; I now have benchmarks on all of these places. I’ll be going back to do photography for more or less the same place to show people how dramatic the changes have been.

Stephanie

Yeah, throughout the years. Sounds great. We’re going to look at a series now that shows the melt changes.

Michael

This is the first ice cave I ever visited and probably one of my favorites. It’s called the Waterfall Cave. One of the reasons why it’s so memorable to me is not only this incredible, gorgeous ice and... by the way, the light comes through from what are called moulins, which are holes in the glacier that go all the way to the top of the glacier.

Stephanie

It looks like it’s glowing.

Michael

So you get snow and the most gorgeous light and also very abrasive debris, rocks and things. Then in the summer, when the heavy rains come, there’s erosion and these rocks etch all of this ice in that really wild way. That’s why it looks like that. It’s that abrasive debris that etches it primarily in the summer from the heavy rains. This is a series. This would have been taken in January 2016. Just that entire cave, a woman is looking up to that moulin. Then in the very next one, not even a year later, all that was left of that part of the cave is this. The cave itself was 75-100 yards long, and the middle of it completely vanished. Then there were just two segments. This would be the south end where we still see the water flowing and a little bit of ice, but not even enough for that woman to be standing in the cave anymore. This ice is so low.

Stephanie

Throughout the years before the climate has been considerably warmer, what is the average expansion/shrinking of the typical ice cave? Does it always vary or is it...?

Michael

It always varies and, again, you have so many elements besides just climate change. The primary one being volcanic activity, so you couldn’t just give a flat rate. The way a glacier forms is through snowfall and the snowfall becomes compacted if it doesn’t melt first. That compacted snow forms the glacier or adds to the existing glacier.

Stephanie

If there’s not enough precipitation, then you don’t have that growth in the cold months.

Michael

More and more in the winter... In fact, just the other day, there’s pouring rain instead of snow now, even at high elevations. Moving along, this would be the north end of that. What was once that massive cave, all you can see here is the arch. That’s all that was left there. The water is still flowing through, but there’s only an arch. Then the final scene is just the glacial melt after the whole cave had more or less vanished.

Stephanie

Wow, so all you have is the water.

Michael

It’s actually even more dramatic than that because the actual cave was up here a bit. And it’s pretty much rock and a little bit of ice. This would have been what’s called a glacial toe. It’s a very small extension of the glacier.

Stephanie

In the span of not even two years, it’s completely gone.

Michael

Yeah.

Stephanie

Wow. It’s quite sad. I’m glad you captured it so we can...

Michael

This was dramatically changed by an incredibly heavy rainfall. Lower than the glacier was positioned, was the main Highway 1 and bridges. Those were all washed out as well in that rainstorm. So it’s very, very dramatic and heavy rain.

Stephanie

That was in 2016.

Michael

That would have been, I think, 17 or 18, even early 18.

Stephanie

Has it been repaired?

Michael

The bridge, you can still see the old one, and they have kind of a semi-permanent drive around. But the main highway, there was no access for at least a couple of months unless you had a vehicle with giant flotation tires and you could drive through the river.

Stephanie

Are there certain areas of Iceland right now that listeners could visit to see any of the glaciers?

Michael

Yes, there are and I strongly suggest that you go to areas where the glacial tongues are. The glacial tongue is the extension off of the main glacier. They’re the most interesting to look at. They’re the easiest to get to. If you come to the exhibition, you’ll see a map or a description of the areas in southeast Iceland that I went. You can also email me at my website and I’ll be more than happy to provide you information. It is shark-infested waters, my dear friends, when it comes to tourism in Iceland. There are so many ripoffs primarily emanating from Reykjavik. You want to go with a guide who lives in the actual area and daily is on the ice and knows what’s going on. Not somebody who doesn’t know anything about the area and just took a job as a guide to take people on a bus from Reykjavik to southeast Iceland.

Stephanie

That’s fair. Good to know. Good tip. The exhibit is open through the end of December.

Michael

Yes, December 31 I believe it closes. There’s also a book of all the photographs that you can also purchase for $49.

Stephanie

We’ll put a link to everything. I do have one fun question I’d like to ask you. You talked a lot about your background, what inspires you to take photos. Is there a mantra or personal theme song that gets you going to start your work for the day?

Michael

There’s a couple. Those who do nothing make no mistakes.

Stephanie

That’s a very good one. That’s very, very true.

Michael

The other one is the unexamined life is not worth living. We’ve got to start examining the way we live in this country and around the world if we’re at all concerned about the impact of climate change.

Stephanie

Yeah, definitely. I’m glad that you’re sharing that with us so we can see what has been happening in Iceland, for one example.

Michael

Thanks very much for giving me the opportunity to talk about this exhibition and I do greatly admire what you’re trying to do with your website, which is to help people recognize what they can do to kind of slow down the progress of climate change.

Stephanie

Definitely, any little bit helps. Thank you again so much for your time today.

Michael

You’re most welcome.

Stephanie

Your work is amazing, so thank you.

Michael

Thank you.

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